As I review the past year and plan for the years to come, I keep shaking my head over a deal that was offered to us for InSearchOf by Cinetic Media. I wanted to get the word out. FILMMAKERS BEWARE! For those who do not know who Cinetic are, they’re the bull in the China shop in the indie film world. They’re big guys, the ones who made the careers of Kevin Smith, Edward Burns and the like. They do a good job representing filmmakers at places like Sundance but this is why I am dismayed of what they are currently offering filmmakers who pour years of hard work, talent, and copious amounts of money into their vision.
Out of the blue Cinetic called me and stated that they wanted to represent our film. I had sent them an earlier version of InSearchOf in hopes of representation. But wait! They passed before, why the sudden change? They established Cinetic Rights Management and felt that our film was a great fit. I felt elated! John Sloss liked my film and was interested in representing it. JACKPOT!!! I guess they weren’t doing their homework, all they had to do was read Indiewire’s announcement to know that I was already working with a couple of distributors through the From Here To Awesome Film Festival. None-the-less I wanted to see what their offer was. I was excited until I got the e-mail of their “deal”.
Why would Cinetic try to pull the wool over the eyes of so many filmmakers by offering an exclusive 10 year deal with no advance, take 50% of total receipts, have the right to assign the film to whomever, with no specific details of their intentions and then have an indemnification clause holding them not responsible for their actions? Greed perhaps? The entire deal wreaked of “grab as many films as possible then sell the library to a large entity for gobbs of money” benefiting CRM. I am not an attorney but even I smelled this one out
The current state of independent film is a fragile one and Cinetic may be destroying what is left standing because of their own greed. FILMMAKERS BEWARE! Seek out companies that offer non-exclusive deals, empowering the filmmaker to promote their work over as many platforms as possible. They should work with companies/aggregators that are filmmaker friendly such as Indieflix, who ask for less then 30% of gross receipts, promote films, and create other opportunities for filmmakers. There has been so much talk about what is right and wrong in the independent film world and some people are offering ways to fix/change it. If there is one lesson that was learned it is greed is not good. Filmmakers can’t be greedy, expecting seven figure deals, representatives can’t be greedy wanting more and more of the pie and distributors can’t be greedy expecting every film to be a million dollar hit. Instead all forces need to work together in making a film a success. Sometimes it takes years, with Cinetic’s deal it would take a lifetime.
Filed under: Uncategorized | Tagged: aggregators, Cinetic Media, Cinetic Rights Management, CRM, distributors, FHTA, filmmakers, From Here To Awesome, Indieflix, Indiewire, InSearchOf, Sundance, Zeke Zelker
Zeke, hey there. Hope you’re well.
I was kinda surprised to see this blog post, especially considering you were the one who reached out to me via Facebook about seeing if Cinetic Rights Management could work on your film.
I was also surprised about the result of the communication because I’m not sure you understood the deal. Cinetic does not take ownership of any film, which is why there are no advances. We are a sales agent. In terms of “non-exclusivity,” that is how we release our films. We actively, as you say, “promote [filmmakers'] work over as many platforms as possible.”
Cinetic built its reputation by being aggressive on behalf of the filmmaker, not on its own behalf or for its own benefit. We work as hard as possible, harder than anyone in this space, to make sure our filmmakers have the deals they need. I would not have left my job at SXSW, if I didn’t believe we were capable of helping filmmakers earn revenue and gain attention.
So, kinda surprised you would post this, especially after our friendly communication started when you reached out to me over Facebook. If there are aspects of the contract that you found puzzling, I wish you would have asked us for more clarity, rather than post conclusions on this blog.
Congrats on all the success of your film! If you ever wanna have that conversation, I’m available.
best,
Matt Dentler
Cinetic Rights Management
Thanks for the comment Matt! I love what Cinetic does and I know that Cinetic is aggressive. I witnessed this with my own eyes when John went to bat for producers against SAG at the ‘98 Sundance Producer’s Conference. I had been a fan ever since, until I got your deal. It was so disheartening. I made Steve aware of this in specific points and he was only willing to budge on the length of term.
I have had many conversations with fellow filmmakers about the various deals out there and your deal appears to be the worst. Maybe you can get away with different terms because of your reputation, but I felt that someone should make filmmakers aware that there are other deals out there. Matt you are a great guy and I respect John, so many people feel the same way, I just wish you and Cinetic could structure your deal that is more favorable to filmmakers. Hell distributors generally only take 35% of gross revenue after all costs and advances have been recouped. If your deal was more filmmaker friendly and you maintain your reputation I think you have win win situation.
All the Best!
Zeke
thanks for posting this Zeke.
FHTA is solving problems. I wish Cinetic would do the same. John I have huge respect for you. Matt you as well. But Zeke and other filmmakers need a solution that is in their favor.
I’m a neutral voice on this situation ( an indie filmmaker with a finished film). Perhaps Cinetic price is high, but if you look at the math they have a solid record of putting films onto iTunes and Amazon. I’ve never seen anything more than a banner ad for any competitor site where-as I’ve received e-mails and have seen all types of coverage for Cinetic repped films. They seem like more of a retail service.
I’m currently at the stage where I made my first film and just want to use it promote myself as a filmmaker. Whether I chose indieflix or cinetic I’m still in the hole in 2 years because truth be told, there really isn’t a ton of money in this form of digital distribution. With cinetic and their resources and advertising, I estimate that I’ll get better sales (the Milk documentary did really , really well this week) from a broader audience.
My internal feeling is that the only people who would buy my film via Indieflix would have been someone that saw it at one of the film festivals that it attended and not much more. (To note, I think cinetic is very close to that as well)
This is nothing against, IndieFlix at all. I’ve known about their company for over a year and have heard of them eventually putting films on itunes, hulu, and amazon but have yet to see an actual follow through. (the from here to awesome films were supposed to be on itunes the day of their festival and freedom state i can’t find). I appreciate their connection with filmmakers like Weller to build the company bottom up and think that they are great.
But at the end of the day, I’d rather have my first film be connected to Cinetic and gain a relationship with them and the other people that they’ve helped connect through out the years. We deal with %s all the time when making films. Sometimes the brand, reputation, and quality that comes with a certain product might be worth the extra % , especially if it increases our chances in the long run. That’s why I’m probably going to go w/ Cinetic.
It is important that filmmakers know their options.
This post has certainly made the rounds and I have seen many comments in other places validating Zeke Zelker’s blog post with regard to the terms of the deal.
I have heard other filmmakers and colleagues who have been approached by CM share this same story with us. You are required to give up your rights for a period of time..a long period of time and the rev share is basically 50/50 after cost. It’s a better deal than standard Hollywood distribution but not by much.
Some filmmakers don’t care about their rights. They don’t care to be deeply involved in distribution and so perhaps Cinetic might be a good fit if they’ll have your film.
For those that want to market their films and have a more direct line to their revenue streams and audience then I suggest you keep at least some of your rights. Be the master of your own destiny. The times we are in demand it.
As it turns out Zeke’s film is on major platforms where he has kept his rights and gets 70-90% of each rev stream after clearly defined & reasonable costs.
Everyone’s experience is different. In the end it’s all about a good match. All of these companies are looking for ways to serve the industry in the best way they can and we all do it differently. Thank goodness we now have options that never existed before.
Cheers!
Scilla Andreen
IndieFlix.com
[...] http://insearchofmovie.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/good-deal-bad-deal/ [...]
To be honest, Scilla.. I come from the world of distribution and I do care about holding the rights to my film (as would most people). Cinetic does not take the ownership of the film. It’s more like a service deal.
Youtube just launched their movie platform and I could easily get my movie on there without anyone’s help. Also if you go onto cinema tech, you can find ways to digitally distribute films on itunes and amazon. My main concern is my personal time + money to try to get WOM out on my film.
As much as I love my film, I’m already working on the next one and don’t want to lose a year of my life to promote it under the same DIY distribution strategies that have been laid out by some of the founders of this movement.
It’s not that “I don’t care”, it’s simply that I am a storyteller and I want to continue telling stories.
Matt has a very, very solid track record of creating careers for people in this industry. Infact, out of his generation I couldn’t really tell you who has put more into the world of independent film. He blogs for Indie Wire, is friends with producers, studio heads, agents, reporters, bloggers, Scarlett Johansen, etc. To be blunt, in a world with strategic networking he’s the type of guy that you want on your side. Add in Cinetic, which has been ruling sales for independent film for the past decade and fought for filmmaker’s betterment and I say that I can trust in what they are doing.
Finally, the only reason why I’m posting here is because I’m really getting annoyed with a lot of people completely trashing Cinetic, film festivals, and distribution.
It’s fine to find problems in anything. We’re all intelligent, inquiring minds. But there’s this growing unearned cocky-ness that is blowing out of control with some filmmakers. My only advice is to not burn bridges with anyone. It’s way way too early in the game to start name call or bad mouthing our peers in the industry …and even though it seems competitive now, it might not be in the near future.
Every time I see punches thrown towards a Cinetic or Film Festival or Distributor , it only makes me take one step further away from the source that is throwing it than a step closer.
Digital Guy, I too am tired of all the naysayers of the state of indie film. I strongly feel that our destiny is in our own hands, we as a community need to work together to build the system that will become the new system. I have no problem distributing my own film if I can not find an agreeable deal.
I agree that Matt and Cinetic have been champions for independent filmmakers, and I have seen this first hand. That is why I was a bit shocked by their deal. There are other people/companies/aggregators out there with better terms and are equally filmmaker friendly, if not more so. Cinetic’s contract states: “Owner irrevocably appoints CRM to act as Owner’s sole and exclusive agent in connection with (i) the licensing, distribution and other exploitation of the Picture in the Digital Media throughout the Territory and for the Term, and (ii) the advertising and promotion of the Picture (the “Advertising Rights”) in all media now known or hereafter devised (to the extent such advertising and promotion reasonably relates to the exploitation of the Picture in the Digital Media and/or the promotion of distributors, portals, vendors, exhibitors or
other parties licensed to exploit the Picture). As Owner’s agent and on Owner’s behalf, CRM has the right to enter
into licensing, distribution and other agreements (“Distribution Agreements”) with third parties for the exploitation
of the Picture in the Digital Media and for the Advertising Rights, on terms that CRM deems reasonable in its sole
discretion. Owner’s signature or approval will not be required for CRM’s execution of any Distribution Agreement.”
I strongly feel that this should be non-exclusive and they should be willing to work more closely with filmmakers. If they were giving an advance and better terms than 50% then I could understand an exclusive agreement. In this open source world I feel that truths need to be shared.
Zeke is right, the Cinetic deal is a rip-off, I know because I’ve dealt with lots of distributors.
Hi Zeke, I saw your film at the State Theater in State College Pennsylvania and it seems online distribution would be a good idea. Being a college kid, I see that most students around my age don’t even rent DVDs that often anymore and rather watch films streaming online. Pretty soon, cable will be obsolete and online computers will replace cable boxes, dvd players and even blue-ray players. Modern television sets even come equipped with computer connections now and many young folks own PS3 video game consoles which are internet ready and connect to televisions through A/V and HDMI connectors. Cinetic Rights Management’s business model for representing films and getting them on hulu, jamon, and i-tunes is the best idea I heard from the indie sector in a long time. Just look at illegal download sites and see how many views an obscure B zombie movie gets over a few nights. Growing up in small town, I was always so frustrated when indie films would only play in selected theaters, which would require a one hour bus trip to NYC. I would usually have to wait for the DVD anyway and my local video store at the time barely had a selection of art house or international cinema. When the New York independent film circles complain about how the independent film community is dead and their films aren’t making any money, it just gets me upset because what community are they talking about? I was never included in that community and neither are my family or friends. We never get invited to free press screenings in New York and it’s too much trouble to visit the Forum. No one in my small town was included in on the loop, but once they discovered films like Requiem for a Dream, Donnie Darko, Gummo and Memento months after they were released on DVD, they went nuts and couldn’t stop telling everyone they knew about these films. Currently I’m living in State College, PA and we never get to see indie films here unless they’re released by studio specialty divisions during oscar season and even those screening are empty. Now with the internet we can truly create an independent film community where everyone is invited, not just New Yorkers, to watch and discuss the unique magic of personal filmmaking.
After completing a no-budget second feature “Determinism” I know the only possible way the film can ever find a real audience is through online portals.
link to “Determinism” teaser trailer:
There are many options out there and filmmakers need to really explore those options before making a decision. While we are filmmakers first, we couldn’t believe some of the deals that were being offered and I’m not pointing any fingers specifically, but most distributors are downright preditory in their terms. For this reason, we decided to start our own distribution company, Indie Rights.
We now have forty films in our catalogue and have been very successful in delivering our catalogue to major sites. Our first ten films appeared on iTunes last month and our catalogue has been on CinemaNow for some time. Our theory is that the more platforms you can get your film on, the better off you’ll be, as this is a “long tail” business model with an endless shelf. Some platforms will survive and some will fail, so we intend to have a good relationship with as many of them as we can.
Our terms are filmmaker friendly: non-exclusive, 3 years, 20% with no expenses deducted. We encourage and teach our filmmakers how to market their films and want them to be as pro-active as possible. We love independent film and believe that by encouraging filmmakers to be more involved in the marketing and distribution of their films, we will find a much wider audience.
Ha, CRM is like eating sand. Probably won’t kill you but it isn’t good for you. There are much better companies out there, even on the full sales side. The market has changed and filmmakers need to work with sales companies that understand this and don’t have a gigantic overhead to cover. Cinetic is also trying too hard to be too much to too many people. Digital, domestic sales, international sales, management, janitorial services, ok maybe not that last one but you get the point. I’d stay away for now unless you have a big movie that can sell for a lot of money with bankable stars..